Ask Engadget HD: HD projector or HDTV? 2010 edition
By Richard Lawler 
posted June 10th 2010 12:01PM
posted June 10th 2010 12:01PM
Some questions seem to have no wrong answer, but since even Lloyd Banks can't decide we're putting the question to you: Beamer, flat-panel or rear projection? At what point is the line where jumping from a mere television to a true theater setup make sense, and just how difficult might it be to install? Let us know how you'd choose in the comments below."We're in the middle of remodeling, and I'm trying to decide between loading up our living room with the biggest flat-panel HDTV I can afford (65-inches+) or installing a screen and projector setup. There's not a lot of light coming into this particular room so it seems like a projector could be possible and provide more size than we'd ever get out of a LCD or plasma, but I need something that will work for the entire family gaming, watching TV or watching movies. Help!!"
Got a burning question that you'd love to toss out for Engadget HD (or its readers) to take a look at? Tired of Google's blank stares when you ask for real-world experiences? Hit us up at ask at engadgethd dawt com and keep an eye on this space -- your inquiry could be next.
Unless your wanting to go a lot over 65 inch I think the best quality to money ratio would be a 65 inch plasma, plus easier to install than a projector, and plasmas will do it all very well, gaming, movies, TV. Projectors just seem like a theater room only thing to me. Go plasma you wont be disappointed.
@pringle757 Totally untrue, Per Inch a projector offers far better value, especially when you compare to a 65". To put this in perspective even a 100" projection screen offers 4X the viewing area of a 50". If you do the math the 65" doesn't even come close.
@rollingwave yes size I agree but, you missed the key word quality, you can not match price for quality of a plasma vs projector, the contrast and black levels are going to be better on a plasma than on a projector unless you spend a lot of money.
@pringle757 I would dissagree with you on all but absolute black level. In terms of iQ generally speaking they mostly have the edge in image quality. Now when you compare a 65" to a projector a fairer comparison would be with a high end ht projector in which case in essentially aspects the projector will walk all over the plasma.....scary to think about but true. Compare to a 1500$ proj it is still closer than you think. Much closer
@pringle757 I would dissagree with you on all but absolute black level. In terms of iQ generally speaking they mostly have the edge in image quality. Now when you compare a 65" to a projector a fairer comparison would be with a high end ht projector in which case in essentially All aspects the projector will walk all over the plasma.....scary to think about but true. Compare to a 1500$ proj it is still closer than you think. Much closer
Yeah I would only put a projector in the living room if I could have shades covering all the windows and there's no other light coming in. Watching a projector during the day with even mild ambient light just doesn't seem attractive to me unless you like watching in a 'cave.' I'd personally stick a large plasma in a living room on the wall, and if you ever want something bigger have a drop down screen in front of the projector for night watching.
@hodedofome Actually, I'd rather have a projector with (mild) ambient light than a plasma. With the projector it just washes out the colors a little, but with plasma you get a reflection of everything in the room. Now if there's more than mild ambient light, then I wouldn't go with either and just go for LCD or DLP rear projection.
@engadgetcomexcludeengadget Depends on where the light is. If it's a lamp that directly in the mirrored reflection on the plasma screen then you'll see it, if it's not, you really won't. I have a plasma and can only see the lamp that's next to my head, I don't see any other lamps in the room or the sunlight coming in through the windows (I sit directly in front of the tv). The lamp on the other side of the couch is not viewable on my plasma. My living room is pretty bright and light reflection is really not an issue. I have an older Samsung, however, the newest panasonics have pretty good anti-reflective filters.
I have had a Panasonic AE1000 over my couch for over three years and love it. The screen (Glidden flat white - I guess I'm cheap, cant see dropping another $1k for a screen) is slightly larger than 100". When you watch everything at 100" after a while everything else seems small. The two windows have heavy curtains and we draw them to watch TV. I have a 46" Panasonic plasma in my bedroom and would never consider it enough for my living room.
I have a projector in my bedroom (live in parents' house) and I couldn't be happier with it. It's only 720p and projecting onto my wall, but in my opinion, it's far better than the 40" 1080p LCD we have downstairs.
If you're into movies (read: if you have 30+ DVDs or BDs), get a projector. They're incredibly immersive to watch movies with, and despite the setbacks (need a dark room, enough space, nice wife, etc), I would highly recommend going with a projector.
Seriously, why choose. For the price of a high end (3k) 65" plasma you could get an Epson 8100 1080p projector + Elite Screen AND a 50" Panny plasma for the day.
Nothing, I mean nothing can beat a 92-100" screen when it comes to home theater.
Despite what people say, projectors don't make the best daily use TV's especially if you turn it off/on several times a day. Not only do you have to control ambient light, but you have to factor in the cost of a bulb which typically last 2000-3500 hours before they get really dim. For most people this is going to be every 2-3 years.
@jamesyun
You hit the nail on the head. Low end 1080p projector for about $1000, 50" plasma for right around $1200, and you can get away with a manual pull down screen for around $300. $500 left over to upgrade any one of those components. A decent HDMI splitter to get your signal to both displays is only about $40 from monoprice.com Use the Plasma in bright light, or pull down the screen close the shades, turn out the lights and use the projector. Many of today's projectors work fine with some ambient light. I even use mine with the lights on (dimmed pretty low though) for watching sports. You give up some contrast with ambient light, but it looks pretty nice regardless.
I don't have mine set-up just like that. My TV is on a side wall, but that's because I was given a fixed mount screen for free when a friend upgraded. I'm giong to rearrange with an electric screen when time and budget permit.
@jamesyun Completely correct.
As I mentioned elsewhere I run an Epson 6500UB (last years version of the 8500UB) With every light on in my basement (lots of pot lights) I can watch football while playing poker with the boys. This projector is 1600 lumen so it's a bit of a light cannon to begin with, but light control is not that important for every day watching. I only worry about it when I am watching movies and looking for best black performance.
The funny thing is if the projector is bright enough the percieved contrast is enough to make even a white screen look black in a brightly lit room. It's funny how it works, but you can't think about it in literal terms, you need to see it to understand what I am saying.
The big thing to remember is that many people still think of projectors in terms of the crappy data projectors they saw in school or elsewhere, My Projector with a 100" screen is plasma bright, and I don't say this tongue in cheek.
I used to go to stores to look at the latest and greatest flat panels. I used to drool over the size. I got a projector and I am not kidding when I say this....I can't even look at them any more, there is simply no point. I have 4X the viewing area of a 50". As a wise man once said, there is no replacement for displacement.
I promise you when I say that if you do watch with the lights on, the size and experience more than compensates....when you turn the lights off, nothing beats it.
It all depends on your budget. There are some really bright projectors out there, so I don't think light would be a problem in this case. The only thing you need to be aware of is that any regular TV, LCD or Plasma, will need less maintenance than a projector. Also, under heavy use you will eventually have to change the projector "bulb", as in within 2 or so years, depending on use.
@brokensticks
I agree, Unless you live where I live (Edmonton) it likely get's dark before 10pm where you are, in which case for most movie purposes where blacks etc are paramount outside light likely won't be a problem. If you have a bright projector, daytime viewing performance will be excellent. The key is to optimize the projector placement. Anytime you are working at the extremes of the lense you will lose some lumen performance. As long as you keep this in mind you can maximize your situation. I have never....and I mean NEVER run into anyone who has purchased a decent projector that has regretted it. Upgrade-itis is reduced since going bigger is a function of screen size. Pretty much the persuit of blacks is what drives people, but if you get a good one to start, you will never go back....ever. Singley this is one of the best purcahses I have ever made. My wife loves it and this is a woman who doesn't get this stuff at all. Now even she says she loves it.
If you can't do both (posted details in a reply to jamesyun) then it matters a lot if you already have a sound system. The plasma is around $3K and will provide acceptable sound all by itself. A 1080P projector & screen set-up is easy to do for under $1500, but the projector won't have any speakers. So factor in the cost of at least a decent $500 HTIB with a projector. Personally though, I think you should plan to spend about as much, if not more, on your sound as you do on your video.
I agree with brokensticks here. Nobody is really mentioning the budget factor. For the budget savy consumer there is the 65" inch Mitsubishi DLP for sale at tigerdirect.com right now for $999.00. I've seen it and it is gorgeous at 1080p. In addition, it is 3D capable. Not to say that the consumer is going to be using 3D on a daily basis. However, to have that capability right out the box is a steal in my honest opinion. Don't get me wrong, projectors are cool because I have Toshiba rear projection televisio, 51H83, and it is still gorgeous. That being said what's the
actual budget because after you purchase the
projecter you need the screen. Can we get an overall budget and then we can make a better assessment.
I have an Epson 6500UB the bulb life is approx 4500 hrs on high or low. Replacement price for this bulb is one of the best features, it's pretty inexpensive. But to you point on projector bulb life:
I have had 2 projectors now with bulb life est in the 4-5k hr range so this is becoming more normal. you will get about 3.1 years from a bulb at 4 hours a day every day 365 a year if you do this based on 5 days a week you will get 4.3 years from a bulb. Most people are itching for an upgrade at this point. But still it remains, the life isn't so bad.
The only reason I post this comment is most people while they will use this alot, will average out to around 3-4 years for bulb life. Frankly if you burn out the bulb in 2 years, you are watching too much TV....that's equivalent to 6-8hrs a day. :o)
Ok, I have commented quite a bit here....sorry for that. but I will finish with this final comment.
1080p is meaningless on smaller screens. 1080p on a 100" + screen is about the only way you will maximize the 1080p effect. When I want to impress people with my system, I always fire up planet earth on BluRay. My Brother wanted to trade in his Kuro after seeing this. He couldn't believe it. The Kuro has spectacular blacks, but in his words, "the blacks look great, but look at that size, I have never seen planet earth look that good.....wow"...
Now my comment about 1080p being meaningless may draw a flame or two, but understand that at a 100inches from a proper viewing distance, people can struggle to tell the difference between a 720p and 1080p projector. This is somewhat a function of quality, but it remains that there are more things that go into a picture than pixles. Size plays an enormous roll in percieved quality.
You can get an electric screen for around $300. I got mine @ htdepot.com 104"viewable shipped for $315. Unless your a stickler for color quality a cheap projector is the way to go. I've had an Optoma HD20 for a few months now and love it. You don't see any artifacting like LCDs its just beautiful.
As far as light goes projectors also have great viewing angles sinces its throwing and image on the wall. It looks equal at all angles. (Although if you sit too far to the side the opposite side looks reallu far away.) Direct light on the screen really washes out a projector picture so any ambient light you want to shine away from the screen. I have light blocking curtains that you can get at any curtain shop and they make it easy to darken the room enough on even the brightest days. Also I ordered from projectorpeople.com and they actually will let you return the projector with less than 4 hours on the bulb. That said, it took about 4 mins for me to be convinced to keep it.
Ive been an exclusive (save a 20" lcd puter monitor) projoctor guy for years now. Movies are great at 106", but Im not sure I would want one for family when the room does have to be dimmed for the best results. Its easy to get cheap roll-up blinds that hide perfectly behind standard curtains (and thus easily uber darken a room), but lighting in the room will always be needed to a certain degree and family makes me think it wont be as enjoyable with family running around and needing some level of light. Barring that and periodic ($300) bulb replacements there is nothing like a plus 100" display for all your watching needs. Projectors have dropped drastically in price in the last few years...Ill never go back to flat panel displays again.
We have a projector in our master bedroom and it truly is an great movie and even prime time television and sports viewing experience, but we can completely darken our room. If the door is wide open to our brightly lit hallway, it dulls the brightness of the projector (unless we crank the brightness setting). We've had it for 2+ years and have not had to change the bulb watching approximately 6-8 hours a week on it. It's a 720p model. I'd like to upgrade to a 1080p model with better contrast and perhaps an anamorphic lens.
That said, the 52 inch LCD in our living room gets the most use because of the brightness of the room, my son's video games, and the swivel stand for pointing it towards the kitchen (damn you open floor plan!).
Both projectors and 50 something sets are so cheap now-a-days, you could end up with both. Although a really good projector with high contrast, a proper mount, and the right screen will cost you $3000-$4000, plus the labor to get it setup properly and look unobtrusive....whilst a good 50-something inch 1080p plasma will run less than $1500 and just needs a stand/cabinet or a wall mount.
I am all about the projectors, however it is definitely a lot more work than a plasma.
Cons:
Light KILLS the blacks so you have to have a well lit dark room
You need a screen
Tedious setup
Can only be on for 4 hours at a time (recommended)
Bulbs need to be replaced every 6000? hours
Can damage your eyes by looking into them
Harder to use somewhere else when you upgrade
Big TV requires a big sound
That aside I think it is all worth it to be in the big leagues. A 65" plasma does not compare in wow factor to a 150" screen.
i am on my tenth home theatre. i've had essentially every type of TV and projector ever made. the FIRST question that you need to answer is:
do i want to watch in a dark, closed space or do i want to watch in a more open space?
having had both, i've decided that i want to to watch in a space which is a part of my living space, rather than apart from it.
I've accomplished that with an 85" plasma TV and a surround sound bar.
of course, spending $39K on a TV (that includes the display, stand and cabinet) is not an option for everyone. additionally, it might not even possible to get an 85" display inside your residence (you can't bend the display). i never thought of that until my display was delivered (i'm glad i didn't get the 103" display because i would never have gotten it into my residence).
If you're all about the movie 'experience' go with a projector, deal with the cave, and use a secondary HDTV (e.g., a 50" Vizio) to watch sports during the day. Or just watch movies/TV at night and go ride/run or whatever outside during the day.
One thing you forget is that with a projector, you can put all your electronics behind you or at a side wall more easily as there are no video source cables running to the screen. The other thing is that a projection screen can be as simple as a painted white wall. I built my own screen using Gatorboard and matte black painted chair rail for trim. Once on the wall, I sort of forgot it was there. Meaning we, and most guests, never notice the screen (it's a very light shade of gray). Now with a +60" screen you have a huge black rectangle on the wall...
And frankly, there's just no way to get around that thing (visually) short of building a valence of some sort all the way around it with a covering, hydraulic lift, or running it whenever people are around as a live picture frame/painting or something.
Lastly, no matter how nice the new LCD's and Plasmas look, there really is no substitute for scale. Coupled with a good sound system, a decent projector really is better then the theater. Friends that have watched movies at my house, even those with MUCH better, higher resolution HDTV's, still comment on how nice it is to watch a movie on my old 720P Panasonic AE700 with 80" screen.
Projectors are sooooooooo much more immersive than flat screen televisions. In terms of immersion, projectors are like surround sound and flat screens are like stereo. At least, that's how it feels to me.
@erh says that "projectors are sooooooooo much more immersive than flat screen televisions." that's simply too broad of a generalization. it depends on the flat screen size. to get an immersive experience, you need a screen that is large enough and placed close enough, to completely fill your field of vision. a 50" or 60" plasma won't do it (i've had both) but an 85" certainly does (i have one) and i imagine that a 103" Plasma TV would totally blow you away (though i've never seen one). and the inherently brighter picture from a plasma TV comes out and grabs you and 'sucks you in' much more than a high-quality front projector, even if it is used with a top grade Stewart or Da-Lite screen in a room with Hunter-Douglas FULLY darkening light blinds. There really is no comparision. but you do have to be at least borderline nuts to spend $40K on just the video part of an a-v system (or so my wife says).
Many won't believe this so please look into this yourself However it is agreed upon by many experts that a quality (not crazy high end) projector absolutely wins in overall image quality in most all cases. Yes plasmas have better blacks but this is hardly the only measurement, this usually ryles flat panel owners but this is not just a size thing. Projectors often have the edge when compared to even the high end.
Projectors have one simple weakness. A bulb that on average last about 3000-4000 hours. All the DLP and LCD manufacturers claimed at least 7000-8000 hours of life out of each bulb but the reality is that it would usually last abouy 4-5000 and projector bulbs can last at least that long but most people will crank up the brightness and almost cut the lifespan in half. A plasma screen around 50-60" will last 20-30 years according to manufacturer specs. Seems to me like a better option than a replacable bulb system that you can't guarantee will be around in 5 years.
Of course if the big screen thing is a main focus, why not have a retractable screen cover a 50" plasma? Use a receiver that has dual hdmi outputs or a video scaler that has it and you have a movie experience on the projector as well as enjoying tv programs without worrying about brightness during the day with the flat panel tv. My dream setup will involve a nice dlp projector, as well as a large plasma screen mounted on the wall behind the screen.
I'm going to mention something which might seem ridiculous but eh. I would love a projector but personally would never use the current tech ones as I am an environmentalist and they consume WAYYYY too much power for my ease of mind.
But on a more relevant note... are you planning on moving about while watching/gaming? if so then a tv might be better. To use the surround sound/stereo analogy of erh, with a stereo you don't care where you are while listening normally, but to truly appreciate surround sound you want to be in the sweet spot. If you're using the projector in a theatre room, then no problem. If you're using it in a living more it gets more tedious, moving about, external light seeping in, etc. If you use the tv as background like many while cooking/cleaning/etc. then a projector won't really cut it.
I had a projector setup going in my college dorm for two years. It was neat but kind of a hassle - I was a bit of a stickler about lamp life so we had a rule where if you were going to turn the thing on you would need to use it for at least 2 hours so as to not strike the lamp too often.
That and people ALWAYS like to make shadow puppets.
Definitely Projector. I bought my Mitsubishi HC3800 (DLP 1080p) for $1200 new on amazon and it even came with an extra bulb for free. Then I built a 140" screen by stapling canvas to a wood frame and painting it with home theater screen paint for about $50. I couldn't be happier.
I do have drapes to block off the light during the day but as others have mentioned, when watching things like sports it looks just fine with lights on and windows open.
Projector... There's nothing better for true HT experience. I have a LCD TV for daily use in my living room and use my Epson 8100 (ceiling mounted) for BD movies and PS3 games along with my sound processor.
If you are concerned about carbon foot print to the point where you won't own something because of energy consumption, then really any ht should be out.
But I do want to thank that poster for doing his part so I can enjoy my projector guilt free. I love it when people people won't do or enjoy something because they are an environmentalist.
Well think of it this way, when you use a projector you are more likely to have your other lights off.....I would consider that collateral savings ;o)
Projector. I have a nice 1080p projector and would never go back to measuring my screen in inches.